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Dette forumet er beregnet på diskusjoner angående personer, slekter og forhold i tiden før 1660. Diskusjoner som dreier seg om nyere slekter vil bli slettet, med mindre de tilhører den eldre slektskretsen i et allerede opprettet forumemne. Emner skal opprettes på slektsnavn eller personens patronymikon. Blir trafikken stor vil det vurderes geografisk oppdeling.



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InnleggSkrevet: 11 Des 2012 00:57 

Registrert: 11 Des 2012 00:37
Innlegg: 2
Hello Skanke-researchers,

I apologise for writing in English, but I don't know any Norwegian and my Swedish is quite bad. I have already asked for information on Finnish and Swedish genealogy forums, but so far I haven't had any confirmation for my supposed lineage. I would really appreciate it if anyone here could help me.

I have in my ancestors Sigurd Joansson (born about 1390 in Översjö, Jämtland and died 1447 in Kluxås), and his granddaughter Margit who married Laurens Sveinsson Blix. Some pages in the internet suggest that Sigurd's father was Joan Pedersson Skanke (Skancke, Skanke, Skunke, Skunck, Skunk, Skonk, Schancke - http://www.geni.com/people/Sigurd-Joansson/2623116). Is this generally accepted as a fact among "serious" genealogy researchers? I'm trying to make sure that this is not just fanciful speculation. If this lineage is true, I suppose that Sigurd himself didn't use the name Skanke, because I have never seen it written "Sigurd Joansson Skanke" anywhere in the internet. If you can mention any original sources where the information has been verified I would really appreciate it.

I visited "Slektsforum DIS-Norge" and found the following information (source: http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/view ... nke#232882) in a family table that sadly ends just before revealing the possible descendants of Joan Pedersson Skanke:

Sitat:
Historikern Barney Young på Isle of Man antar att Peder Nilsson kan vara en son till Nils Hallsteinsson (kFR. Young, G.V.C., Fra Skanke-slektens historia, Isle of Man 1985). Det finns också en annan teori som går ut på att Peder skulle vara identisk med väpnaren Peder Alexandersson till Börön, omtalad år 1371 (DN XXI, 138,139), kung Håkon Magnussons handgångne man. Roger de Robelin antar att ingen av dessa två teorier är troliga. Han tror hellre på ett släktskap med adelsfamiljer i Pommern och Mecklenburg. Forskaren Björn Markhus har valt att stanna vid Peder Nilsson som son till Nils Hallsteinsson, men håller andra möjligheter öppna.


If I understood that correctly, it seems that for the most part de Robelin's book is correct, but when it comes to Peder Nilsson's father his theories of roots in German nobility are not generally accepted by most researchers. In other words, his book is reliable with the younger generations, but Peder's most likely father would have been Nils Halsteinsson. If that is correct, is there any reliable source available for Nils' ancestors - other that what can be found in Geni (where I suppose anyone can write anything)?

So, basically just three questions:
1) Was Sigurd Joansson really Joan Pedersson Skanke's son?
2) Who was the most likely father for Peder Nilsson Skanke?
3) Was the Skanke family more likely descended from the Isle of Man kings, or German nobility, or somewhere else? (Sources?)

Many thanks in advance for any information! :)


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InnleggSkrevet: 12 Des 2012 22:47 

Registrert: 23 Okt 2012 21:42
Innlegg: 117
I am sorry to disappoint you, but most of what you refer to here is not genealogically sustainable. I see no reason to go too much into details about this, but given the general lack of sources for genealogical evidence there is limited or no hope at all to prove any of these connections. I will give you one example of an obviously erroneus link in what you have found on the net - build on written articles:

The one you refer to as Joan Pederson Skanke is known as Jon i Sanne as he represents the people of Jemtland in 1410 (DN XVI:60). He is assumed to a be a brother of Karl Petersson, who is the first representative, Jon being the second. The entire process is vitnessed by the right honorable Peter Nilsson, who is then assumed to be the father of the first two witnesses. It is highly unusual that a father will witness a legal document signed by his own sons in this capacity. There is no mentioning of the sons being of the same noble class as their assumed father. There is nothing linking the three persons together in a family connection. More so, as Jon supposedly appear in written sources already in 1394 it becomes quite unlikely, if not impossible, that his father will still be legally active in 1410. In general, a son will not be very visible in written sources as long as his father is alive. Thus, it is highly unlikely that Jon i Sanne is a son of Peter Nilsson.

And for the idea of the Skanke family being descendents of the kings of Isle of Man, please forget that you've ever heard of it.This isn't even fanciful speculations. It is science fiction.


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InnleggSkrevet: 14 Des 2012 00:33 

Registrert: 11 Des 2012 00:37
Innlegg: 2
Hi, thank you for taking the time to answer! So it seems I was right to be sceptical about the supposed lineage. Apparently Sigurd Joansson's link with the Skankes has been a widely distributed fantasy by someone(s) hoping for noble ancestors, if it has only been based on having the name appear on the same document, as you describe. (I ran into a similar "optimistic fantasy" case with my Blix ancestors, when one Margareta Pedersdotter was rumored to have been Roos av Ervalla, with no basis in reality.)

My leading idea in genealogy research is to find facts and only include real people and real family connections in my family tree, and that's the reason I asked about this issue everywhere I could think of in order to have some clarity. So, while it would have been nice to have some uradel forefathers, I'm quite happy with the ones I got - and it's interesting enough to have Norwegian, Swedish, German, Belgian etc. ancestors, in addition to my Finnish ones, regardless of their status. "My" Sigurd Joansson's parentage will probably remain a mystery.

I had almost lost hope in ever finding an answer for this question, so I'm very grateful to you for putting my mind at rest. Thank you!

(If it's OK with you, I would like to translate the essential part of your post into Finnish (ie. Sigurd having no real link with the Skankes, and Skankes having nothing to do with the Isle of Man) and put it in the Finnish genealogy forum where I have already been having a discussion about the topic. i would naturally mention you and this thread/forum as the source.)


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InnleggSkrevet: 17 Des 2012 16:10 

Registrert: 23 Okt 2012 21:42
Innlegg: 117
My argumentation was partly directed against the description in the reference link you gave, where Jon's father was supposed to be the same one as tyhe one listed in the 1410 letter. I see that others before me have considered that to be an impossible link, thus, you will also find other possible identification of the Peter. The rest of my argumentation is still valid, so please translate it and distribute it also in Finnish.


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